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Podcast interview with Leighton Smith

The Menzies Ascendency: Australia in the Atomic Age
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Keith Rigg (R) with Sir Robert Menzies signing a bat, circa 1950 [Rigg Family Album CC BY 3.0] |
I will present my final paper for the Robert Menzies Institute's Third Annual Conference, 'The Menzies Ascendency: Implementing a Liberal Agenda and Consolidating Gains, 1954-1961' on Friday 24th November 2023. An earlier version of this paper was presented at the University of Canberra's Faculty of Business, Government and Law Seminar Series in May 2023.
The slides and abstract from my final presentation are below, along with a podcast episode with Georgina Downer, CEO of the Robert Menzies Institute:
Abstract
Menzies embraced the atomic age rather more enthusiastically than many other Australians. He envisaged Australia’s substantial uranium and thorium reserves providing Australia with a source of clean, reliable, and affordable energy that would ultimately replace fossil fuels. But he also knew that “what is best advertised tends to be more popularly understood”. Despite the opening of a nuclear reactor at Lucas Heights in 1958 to “test materials for their suitability in use in future power reactors”, the purpose of Australia’s first nuclear reactor was gradually reduced to producing medical radioisotopes and conducting research. Menzies faced similar concerns about the safety of nuclear reactors, the propensity for conflating nuclear industries with nuclear weapons, and storing nuclear waste to those concerns political leaders face today. But with Australia’s strategic defence capabilities enhanced by nuclear-powered submarines through the AUKUS agreement, and the absence of a ‘Plan B’ for a carbon-neutral future, the unrealised potential of Australia’s atomic age has manifested into the very lack of skills Menzies was concerned about in 1962. The Lucas Heights facility was more than just a case of hubris, or “what are they doing here that can't be better done elsewhere?” It provided opportunities for training Australian scientists and sharing and transferring nuclear-related research and knowledge. At the same time, recently declassified documents suggest that Menzies aimed to develop Australia’s nuclear capability amid eleven years of atomic weapons tests conducted by Britain in Australia. While much has been written about “nuclear colonialism” following the Royal Commission into the tests, very little attention has been given to the unrealised potential of Australia’s nuclear industry envisaged during the atomic age. This paper, then, traces the development and subsequent stagnation of the nuclear industry in Australia, with a focus on Menzies’ legacy and its influence on energy and defence policy today.

Developing our own capability: Australia’s Nuclear Journey
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Michael de Percy with Georgina Downer, Afternoon Light Podcast, Robert Menzies Institute |
In this week’s episode of the Afternoon Light podcast, Robert Menzies Institute CEO Georgina Downer talks to Dr Michael de Percy about how Menzies represents Australia’s unrealised nuclear potential.
Dr Michael de Percy FRSA FCILT is Senior Lecturer in Political Science at the University of Canberra. His qualifications include a PhD in Political Science from the Australian National University, a Bachelor of Philosophy (Honours) from the University of Canberra, and a Bachelor of Arts from Deakin University. He is a graduate of the Royal Military College, Duntroon, where he received the Royal Australian Artillery prize. He is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, a Chartered Fellow of the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport and Vice-Chair of the ACT and Southern NSW Chapter, Vice President of the Telecommunications Association (TelSoc - Australia's oldest learned society), Public Policy Editor of the Journal of Telecommunications and the Digital Economy, and a member of the Australian Nuclear Association. He was appointed to the Australian Research Council's College of Experts in 2022.
The podcast is available on YouTube or Spotify:

Year in Review: 2022
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Donald the Silver Laced Wyandotte Rooster, Keswick, 15th December 2022 |
I want to get my podcast happening regularly and start writing books (I have two editors waiting on proposals). I have a pipeline of journal articles now but I will not focus on A* nonsense journals that do not engage with industry or reflect the importance of research for Australia. I also hope to make inroads into public policy in NSW and Australia more generally and will continue to contribute submissions to public inquiries when I can. I hope to continue to develop internships for the best and brightest of my students and I hope to continue to contribute to The Spectator. To have one of my articles in the print edition would be great.
These are scary times for Australia. After years of living in Canberra and being part of the academic bubble, I am so glad I moved to Gunning and became part of the federation again. Listening to the opinions of the forgotten people has been refreshing. Writing for The Spectator has given me a taste for free speech like I have never had before. I will use it and not lose it.
It has been a long, hard road this year. But like all years, I have lived up to my credo - my guiding principles are Love, Liberty, and Learning. On reflection, I have been successful on these three fronts this year.

Nuclear Energy in Australia: From Barriers to Benefits
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"Greenflation" is one of the many uncertainties in Australia's energy future [CC0] |
Here are the notes from my presentation on nuclear energy at the Goulburn Soldiers Club on 3rd November 2022.
The presentation focused on the policy aspects of nuclear and addressed the following issues:
- Why nuclear?
- The policy landscape and nuclear
- Arguments against nuclear
- The wind and sunshine gap, Victoria 2019
- Greenflation?
- Rewiring the Nation
- Policy impacts
Below is a list of supporting materials for my presentation at the Goulburn Soldiers Club, 3rd November 2022.
Supporting materials:
Allen, L. (2022, 3 October). Bill introduced to remove nuclear energy ban in Australia. Small Caps.
Australian Nuclear Association (2022). Teaming with Canada for Australia’s Nuclear Energy Future: Report on a recent trip by the speakers to USA and Canada.
Australian Electricity Market Operator (2022). Data Dashboard.
Davasse, G. and Merle, C. (2022, 3 Jun). Greenflation, the new normal? Natixis Corporate and Investment Banking.
De Percy, M.A. (2021). Models of Government-Business Relations: Industry Policy Preferences versus Pragmatism in Andrew Podger, Michael de Percy, and Sam Vincent (Eds.) Politics, Policy and Public Administration in Theory and Practice: Essays in honour of Professor John Wanna. Canberra: ANU Press.
De Percy, M.A. (2021). Policy Legacies from Early Australian Telecommunications: A Private Sector Perspective. Journal of Telecommunications and the Digital Economy, 9 (3).
De Percy, M.A. (2022). Institutional exhaustion and foreign aid in the time of COVID-19. In Jakupec, V., Kelly, M., and de Percy, M.A. (Eds.) COVID-19 and Foreign Aid: Nationalism and Global Development in a New World Order. London: Routledge.
De Percy, M.A. and Batainah, H.S. (2021). Identifying historical policy regimes in the Canadian and Australian communications industries using a model of path dependent, punctuated equilibrium, Policy Studies, 42 (1), pp. 42-59. DOI: 10.1080/01442872.2019.1581161.
Madsen, A. and de Percy, M.A. (2020) Telecommunications Infrastructure in Australia. Australian Journal of Social Issues, 55 (2), pp. 218-238. DOI: 10.1002/ajs4.121.
De Percy, M.A. and Poljak, J. (2022, 5 May). Energy security: Embracing technological neutrality. The Interpreter. The Lowy Institute.
De Percy, M.A. (2022, 19 October). Old habits die hard: Labor’s uncosted infrastructure. The Spectator Australia.
De Percy, M.A. (2022, 1 November). Victorian Labor: Waste and Rorts.
De Percy, M.A. (2022). What are the possibilities for hydrogen? Presentation at the CILT World Congress, Hyatt Regency Perth, 25th October.
Dubner, S.J. (2022, 22 September). Nuclear power isn't perfect. Is it good enough? Freakonomics Radio [Podcast].
GE Gas Power (2022). Cutting Carbon [Podcast].
International Atomic Energy Agency (2022). Nuclear Explained [Podcast].
Keefer, C. (2022). Decouple [Podcast].
Natural Resources Canada (2022). Uranium and nuclear power facts.
Platt, G. (2018, 27 February). 'Baseload' power and what it means for the future of renewables. CSIRO. ECOS, Iss. 240.
Poljak, J. (2022, 11 May). Hydrogen versus LNG: Choices for Europe. Illuminem.
Poljak, J. (2022). keynumbers.
Shakil, I. (2022, 26 October). Canada commits C$970 million to new nuclear power technology. Reuters.
Shepherd, A.F. (2007). Stumbling towards nation-building: impediments to progress. In John Butcher (Ed.) Australia Under Construction: Nation building past, present and future. Canberra: ANU E Press.
Tomago Aluminium (2022). Tomago Keeps The Lights On Across The State.
Victorian Energy Policy Centre (2022). Australian NEM Data Dashboard.
WSJ Podcasts (2022). Is nuclear poised for a comeback? The Journal [Podcast].
World Nuclear Association (2022). Chernobyl Accident 1986.
World Nuclear Association (2022). Fukushima Daiichi Accident.
World Nuclear Association (2022). Nuclear Power in Canada.
World Nuclear Association (2022). Three Mile Island Accident.

Developing a Professional Narrative: One of My Own
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Lake Pejar, Upper Lachlan Shire, NSW, 13 March 2021. |
My point here is to demonstrate to my students why I think a personal narrative is so important. While I don't pretend to have achieved any notable measure of success, I can say faithfully that I have achieved everything I dreamt I would. But like Lily Tomlin:
All my life I always wanted to be someone. I see now I should have been more specific.
But my own journey has provided enough lessons that I am confident I can convey those lessons to my students in a way that is either meaningful now or at some 'aha!' moment in the future. At least I can hope. Oh, wait, the Stoics were not big fans of hope... but I digress.
I always wanted to work in Canberra as an academic. But first, I wanted to be a fighter pilot (I became an army officer and qualified as an air contact officer - so close!); to be some kind of member of the clergy to study theology (I became a local officer in a Salvation Army corps - deputy bandmaster and Songsters leader - my family has a long history with the Salvos dating back to the 1890s in Guyra); to be a senator (I decided a long time ago that I do not have the wherewithal to be a politician); and to be a political scientist. But I was more specific. I wanted to be a political scientist in Canberra but live in the NSW regions somewhere around Canberra. In a federation house (my great-grandparents' federation house in Haberfield was amazing).
And now that's exactly what I do. I measure my level of satisfaction y the way I wake up in the morning. If I leap out of bed ready to tackle the day's challenges, it's all good. But I vowed never to keep doing the same old thing if I woke up thinking 'By God, I cannot stand this job!' I had that experience when I was 19 and I took a chance and resigned that day. I joined the Army Reserve and did all sorts of casual jobs and, two attempts later, I marched into Duntroon.
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Air Contact Officer course 1996, RAAF Base Williamtown just before calling in F/A-18 ground attack missions marked by my artillery battery at Singleton Military Area. |
My point is not to suggest that I am any model of success - far from it - but that I wrote down what I wanted years ago and it has slowly materialised. Not necessarily easily or through good management, but it has all transpired. I remember sitting in the scrub at Shoalwater Bay Training Area imagining I was doing my PhD at ANU, being supervised by Professor John Wanna, who was one of the authors of my textbook, Davis, G., J. Wanna, J. Warhurst and P. Weller. (1993). Public Policy in Australia. Second Edition. Sydney: Allen & Unwin.
I liked John's writing style and in 2013, I graduated with a PhD in Political Science from ANU with John as my supervisor. The key point is not that it happened, but that it was a part of my narrative, my story.
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My 1993 policy studies textbook at Deakin Uni in 1994 with my signed copy of John's first edition. |
To cut a long story short (and to reserve a few things that are for me!), below is a recent narrative I wrote about why I was applying for a committee role - and who I am, and what I stand for - which is what I am asking my students to do this semester.
Description of the candidate and their
reasons for nominating:
Description of the Candidate
Dr Michael de Percy FCILT is Senior
Lecturer in Political Science at the Canberra School of Politics, Economics and
Society, University of Canberra. He holds a PhD in Political Science from the
Australian National University, a Bachelor of Philosophy (Honours) from the
University of Canberra, and a Bachelor of Arts from Deakin University. He is a
graduate of the Royal Military College, Duntroon, where he received the Royal
Australian Artillery prize. He is a Fellow of the Chartered Institute of
Logistics and Transport, and he is an editor of the Journal
of Telecommunications and the Digital Economy. Michael’s
research focuses on the scholar-practitioner nexus in the disciplines of transport
and telecommunications policy, comparative politics, historical
institutionalism, government-business relations, and leadership. His recent
publications include Politics, Policy and Public
Administration in Theory and Practice: Essays in honour of Professor John Wanna, ANU
Press, 2021 (with Andrew Podger and Sam Vincent); Populism and a New World Order (in
Viktor Jakupec et. al. Rethinking Multilateralism in Foreign Aid,
Routledge 2020); and Road Pricing and Provision: Changed
Traffic Conditions Ahead, ANU Press 2018 (with John Wanna). Michael's
research articles have been published in Policy Studies, the Australian
Journal of Social Issues, the Journal of Telecommunications and the
Digital Economy, the Australasian Transport and Research Forum,
and Public Administration Today. His expert commentary has been
published in The Australian, ABC's The Drum, The
Canberra Times, The Age, The Sydney Morning Herald,
John Menadue’s Pearls and Irritations Public Policy Journal, and The
Conversation, and he has also appeared on numerous television and radio
news programs. Michael teaches
government-business relations, political leadership, and professional
development subjects for social scientists in a Bachelor of Politics and
International Relations degree, and he also teaches leadership in MBA programs
in Australia and overseas. Michael's blog Le Flâneur
Politique (ISSN 2652-8851) and podcast on his research, teaching, and
community engagement activities are available at www.politicalscience.com.au and
you can follow him on twitter @madepercy.
Reasons for Nominating
Following a career change in my early thirties, I fulfilled a long-held wish to become a political scientist. Political science has fascinated me since primary school after winning a politics competition and missing class to attend a local council meeting. I have been hooked ever since. I have political party committee and campaigning experience at the local, state, and federal levels. I attended my first APSA conference in 2004 as an honours student and I have remained involved in APSA as much as I have been financially able over the years. As my career has progressed, I have become more involved in conferences and other activities, including the APSA Teaching and Learning Group and contributing to the APSA-inspired Australian Politics and Policy project through Sydney University Press. I am now at a stage in my career where I can give back to my profession, and I am putting myself forward as a candidate for the position of Ordinary Member on the APSA Executive Committee. I bring to the committee over thirty years' experience in committee work, leadership, and strategic planning and I have a strong desire to see political science in Australia continue to increase its relevancy to citizens, governments, and businesses, and also to promote the study of politics by potential students at all levels. My pedagogical approach is based on my experience as a first-in-family university degree recipient, and I see the study of political science not only as a way to learn more about the world that we live in, but also to develop oneself in the liberal arts tradition, learning not only to become more aware of our own calling but also to become more vigilant and enlightened citizens. I am now in a position to represent the discipline and the Australian Political Studies Association faithfully, and I offer my service to you.@madepercy.
The Outcome?
I lost. I doubt our 'narratives' were the compelling reasons people voted for their preferred candidate. But the reflective aspect remains useful, in that we can create our story and live it.
Sun Tzu said:
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all that I can?
Or consider the (allegedly) Harley Davidson advertisement:
When Writing The Story Of Your Life, Don’t Let Anyone Else Hold The Pen
The point is that it is up to you. And if you don't like your story, you have the power to re-write it.

Professional Orientation: The Journey Continues
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The journey of a modern hero, to the island of Elba [Public Domain] |
Dr Jean-Paul Gagnon is a University of Canberra philosopher in democracy studies. As a senior lecturer in the School of Politics, Economics, and Society he delivers subjects, with colleagues, on politics, public policy, philosophy and professional orientation. E: jean-paul.gagnon@canberra.edu.au.
In this podcast, Dr Jean-Paul Gagnon and Dr Michael de Percy discuss their approach to teaching Professional Orientation, a first-year professional development unit in the Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, and its relationship to Professional Evidence, the capstone unit for professional development for third-year students.

Professional Orientation: The Journey
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Dr Jean-Paul Gagnon is Senior Lecturer in Politics at the University of Canberra |
In this podcast, Dr Jean-Paul Gagnon and Dr Michael de Percy discuss their approach to teaching Professional Orientation, a first-year professional development unit in the Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society.

On the Beach: The most disturbing novel I have ever read
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Remnants of Chernobyl [Photo: CC0] |

My rating: 5 of 5 stars

Vonnegut: Nothing to see here, moving right along...
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Folly in the Mist, Hann. Münden, Germany. Photo by Michael de Percy. |
The trouble with him was that he was without imagination.
You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, 'Look at that, you son of a bitch.’
The trouble with him was that he was without imagination. He was quick and alert in the things of life, but only in the things, and not in the significances.
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Outside the Grimm Brothers' Museum, Kassel, Germany. Photo by Michael de Percy. |

T.S. Eliot's "The Waste Land": Pound for Pound
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Gunning Golf Course, 4th December 2018. |

My rating: 4 of 5 stars
Eliot added a bunch of notes to the poem, many of which turned out to be superfluous. The poem had also been cut down considerably by Ezra Pound, which took away the various signals of the several stories that emerge in the poem.
I listened to a reading of the poem on YouTube (below), partly read by Eliot. In the In Our Time discussion, they mentioned that the poem was published at the same time BBC Radio began, so in many ways the poem lends itself to a radio reading. It is interesting how listening to the poem being read makes the different voices more obvious, whereas this is somewhat obscured in a first reading (to oneself).
Even the different interpretations by American versus English critics revealed different interpretations of common English sayings highlighted in the poem. And of course, there are many references to the classics and so on which I hope to discover by obtaining a copy of the original (pre-Pound) version of the poem, and also the published version with the superfluous notes added by Eliot.
The poem apparently took Eliot one year to write, and he was quite upset by the paltry sum first offered to him for its publication. Yet it is now regarded as the most influential poems of the twentieth century.
Like all great works, the poem deserves several readings. But if you want to really hear the different voices, the recital of the poem will bring this to the fore.
Notes:
1. Fleischer, G. (1998). Djuna Barnes and T.S. Eliot: The Politics and Poetics of "Nightwood". Studies in the Novel, 30(3), 405-437. Retrieved from http://www.jstor.org/stable/29533280.View all my reviews
